Talk:Gou Matsuoka

Her name is Kou. Why are you calling her "Gou"? That's extremely disrespectful.

Because her official name is Gou. Kou is just the name she prefers to go by as it is the more feminine pronunciation of her name. Please learn your facts before posting. ShikiKira (talk) 22:40, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Her name??
I was just wondering if Gou's name should be spelled "Gō"?? ^___^

Well, yes, it should. However, since her name contains a character 'ō' that we usually don't use a lot, people tend to spell her name as 'Gou'. OOQuietSnowOo (talk) 19:46, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I completely understand!! Thank you for clarifying!!

You're very welcome! :) OOQuietSnowOo (talk) 13:38, November 20, 2013 (UTC)

Her Birth sign??
I have seen no original source for Gou's birth sign. I do not believe she has one according to kyoani but the wiki has her listed as a Taurus. Is there a reason for this? KudouUsagi (talk) 18:18, November 16, 2014 (UTC)

Her name is Kou. There's no reason to call her Gou other than to be an jerk. Just because Nagisa refuses to use her preferred name doesn't mean you have to. It'd be more appropriate to make a note of Gou than it is to make a note of Kou.\

Her name is literally Gou. That is her name. It's stupid to call her page 'Kou'. The format should show 'Gou Matsuoka' as her name and list 'Kou Matsuoka' as her alias. We wouldn't list some kid named Alfred Johnson as "The Amazing Awesomeman" just because that's what he wants to be called unless everyone actually called him that and never Alfred so people would be searching for it (and even then it might just be a redirect). People tend to call her 'Gou', so this is not the case.

This is a wiki, people come here for accurate information about the show and charaters. Spreading incorrect information (that her name is 'Kou') is absurd.

Yusagi (talk) 00:59, May 29, 2017 (UTC)Y

Changing the name still leaves intact the part where it says her given name is Gou, so there's no obscuring of information. Even on the introductory sentence, it could be rephrased to Gou Matsuoka (who prefers to be known as Kou), and then use the proper name from then on.

And (even assuming that nobody would call your hypothetical kid how he wants to be called) there's still a distinction between a kid going through a phase and somebody modifying their name to better suit their gender and personality. A more accurate metaphor would be that if a woman told you her name was Frankie, you wouldn't call her Frank just because that's on her birth certificate - she's modified that to suit her identity better and no longer goes by it.

And even if people choose to disrespect her by calling her that, it doesn't make her chosen name any less real.

Tzpyrope (talk) 08:58, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

It isn't relevant what she wants to be called! Her NAME. IS. GOU. She can call herself anything, that's the point I was making. It doesn't change that she's still named Gou. And therefore her character page, which is named after the character's name, should be "Gou Matsuoka". Including a note like "She prefers to be called Kou" should go into the personality and/or background, along with having an alias note. Calling the name of the page 'Kou' is inaccurate.

She is not a real person, you cannot disrespect her, because she isn't real. The real character's name is Gou. She wants to be called Kou, but that does not change what her name actually is. Especially when not everyone calls her Kou (and she eventually gives up correcting people anyway).

Yusagi (talk) 09:04, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

Disrespecting fictional characters reflects a disrespect for real people.

By your logic, nicknames also devalue a person's real name, because with being given a nickname not everyone calls them by the name they call themself by. Legal name changes exist for a reason; even if not everyone respects them, they acknowledge the right of a person to choose their own name independently of the name they were given.

There's no reason to be having this discourse to begin with, because either way the point gets across that her given name is Gou but her preferred name is Kou; however, only calling her Kou actually reflects her wishes, so it's superior anyway.

Tzpyrope (talk) 09:14, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

Her legal name is Gou. At such a time when it becomes Kou because she legally changes it then the wiki page would accurately reflect her name by listing her as 'Kou'. Until then, it's merely a nickname she prefers. Particularly since it's actually just a preferred method of pronouncing her name, not even a different name. Rin calls her 'Gou', however, which means that her name is certainly meant to be pronounced as 'Gou'. It is not disrespect to list their given name any more than it's disrespect when a business or military lists the legal name of a person instead of the nickname they go by. That's what legal name changes are for. Which Gou has not done.

Thus. The page should remain named 'Gou', with a simple note in her alias and her personality that she prefers 'Kou' because she feels it's more feminine. Rather straightforward.

Yusagi (talk) 09:20, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

Legal names are only a method of being legally recognized by a name you chose. The point is that it's still a name you chose, which you make your legal name. Your logic relies on given and birth names always being correct, when in fact they aren't. And a wiki is not comparable to a business or military where a legal name is required for legal reasons. A wiki can both respect a name and point out that it's not always the one they've gone by, because it's not legally bound.

My brother also calls me by a name that isn't my real one. You can't invalidate people based on the malice or ignorance of those around them.

And again, calling her by the correct name where applicable doesn't negate the presence of her birth name on the sidebar and in her personality. Equally straightforward and more respectful.

Tzpyrope (talk) 09:28, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

...What??? What you're saying is bizarre. This isn't a conversation or meet up place. It's a wiki. It's supposed to list the characters in the show and present factual information about them so that people who either want to learn about the character or are looking for stuff they may have missed can get that information.

I can't think of any wiki or time when a wiki would list a nickname which isn't even used all that often in canon instead of the real name of a character. Especially when more often than not people call her 'Gou'. (More main characters tend to call her 'Gou' than 'Kou').

Even for a real person we list the real name unless their nickname is what they're better known by and therefore what people would search. It's not disrespectful. It's just literally what their name is. This argument is just silly. You can't invalidate Gou Matsuoka because she is not real. She cannot be upset by something in the real world because she does not exist. Her name is Gou Matsuoka. She prefers to be called 'Kou' because she likes it better, but her actual name remains Gou and will remain Gou until the time that she legally changes it. End of story.

Yusagi (talk) 09:36, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry if my point isn't quite getting across - in short, legal names aren't what we have to refer to people by, and factual information can still be presented. There's literally nothing dangerous or inaccurate that changing one letter of a character's name to reflect their preferences is going to do (especially among anime fans who are used to differing romanizations). Changing the name also would hardly affect search results, given that one can google Kou right now and be given the results for Gou with no difficulty, and that redirect pages exist.

The point is that what people call her isn't relevant - it's what she calls herself, and therefore her name, not anyone else's to choose for her.

And Kou herself may not be disrespected, but it's a reflection of how the wiki views people who change their names - it implies they're fake unless we comply with the law to make them real. Being a fictional character doesn't separate her from the biases of the real people making the wiki.

Tzpyrope (talk) 09:42, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

If the writer didn't make Kou literally a joke, and had everyone respect her name and made a big deal about how Kou is actually her name, you'd have a point. However, that is not the case at all. The name is nothing more than a joke on the fact that all the men have feminine names, and a way to create humor because all the guys who crush on her call her by Gou while Nagisa annoys her by calling her Gou. This has no bearing on how it would be treated in the real world.

In the end, it's a pointless argument. Her name is Gou. She's known by Gou. She answers to Gou. People call her Gou. Therefore she should be called 'Gou' here. Fighting over it belongs somewhere in fandom that isn't the wiki page.

Yusagi (talk) 09:52, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

Based on your comments this is clearly a sensitive and important issue to you Tzpyrope; I'm nonbinary myself so i fully understand how important it is to respect peoples names and pronouns. However, the fact here is that wikias do not refer to characters by anything other than their canonical and officially used name, regardless of whether the alternative name was appointed by the character themselves or is a frequently used nickname. As such, considering that in all official information pertaining to the series, including the light novels, she is referenced as Gou it makes most sense to address her as such. This isn't to disrespect her, or any other character, it's how wikia's as a whole operate in order to stay true to the series creator's information and intentions.

Saruhikofushimis (talk) 09:54, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

I'm tired of this discourse, honestly. I think it's completely pointless to call her by a name that she would be offended by, and it's a poor joke to be respected if her name is meant to be a joke.

I won't respond past this point, but I hope I've said enough to persuade an admin.

Tzpyrope (talk) 09:57, May 29, 2017 (UTC)